I have mixed feelings....
... about this controversy, in which one of Michigan's largest law schools is suing the American Bar Association for blocking accreditation of two branch campus programs which cater to part-time and weekend students, and which have apparently met all stated ABA accreditation criteria.
On the one hand, I question whether the country needs yet more lawyers, and from a librarian's perspective, I can see how it might be difficult to make truly equal legal resources available at multiple campuses. On the other hand, a law school that is open to people who can't drop everything and attend full time for three years straight is a valuable service to anyone who has to support himself/herself and, perhaps, a family, with a full time job, but has the desire and the ability to "learn how to think like a lawyer".
I have considered trying to earn a second master's degree in order to improve my position on the academic job market, but find that many universities are too snobbish and stuck-up to even consider the possibility of tolerating part-time students. A relative of mine in Austin, Texas, has reported that the University of Texas graduate business school similarly has its nose stuck firmly in the stratosphere. It wants only full-time students who are supported by their parents and don't have to pay their own bills. Apparently people with actual ongoing hands-on business experience aren't classy enough.
My dad earned his law degree by working his tail off in evening and weekend classes while working full time as an engineer to support his family. He says that even at that time there was a noticeable hostility to part-time students, who were apparently perceived as being socially undesirable.
The ABA has refused to publicly comment about its role in this imbroglio, but it's hard to see it as anything but (1) old fashioned snobbishness and (2) turf-protection by existing attorneys who would just as soon not see large numbers of new-minted competitors enter the market.
Editorial note, 4/8: changed "supported by mommy and daddy" to "supported by their parents" in the third paragraph, because the students haven't done anything wrong and making fun of them doesn't accomplish anything.
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1 comment:
Yam @ 1:57PM | 2004-04-07| permalink
The UT graduate business school has a few programs for nights-and-weekends students. One meets every other week for two years, for a full Friday and Saturday; the other meets a few evenings each week for three years. Unfortunately both are prohibitively expensive.
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Felix @ 2:01PM | 2004-04-07| permalink
By which you mean, significantly more expensive than the daytime counterparts?
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S. @ 9:14PM | 2004-04-07| permalink
Also more expensive than a graduate degree from a certain private university in town...
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Yam @ 12:28AM | 2004-04-08| permalink
Yep.... somewhere around $25k a year, plus a mandatory laptop. Somewhat higher for nonresidents.
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Trebor @ 1:41AM | 2004-04-08| permalink
Well, Rice has a part-time MBA, and they take classes with the full-time MBAs. I found the part timers generally had more to contribute in class and were far more interesting. ~ Trebor
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Felix @ 1:22PM | 2004-04-08| permalink
I applaud Rice's program, and I expect it does good things for their relationship with the surrounding community (including nearby businesses.) Are they offered during evenings or weekends?
As I recall, Yam, the UT evening program is primarily aimed at people whose tuition is being subsidized by their employer, right?
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YAM @ 7:37PM | 2004-04-08| permalink
Heh heh.... yep.
But actually, I was in the engineering evening program. Similar format but not quite the same thing.
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Pablo @ 5:29PM | 2004-04-09| permalink
Theoretically, if an education were a good INVESTMENT, then it would be worth it to borrow money to attain it and also be able to convince some lender of this.
However, education is not a good investment, so you can frequently only get loans by forgoing bankruptcy protection.
I agree then that working PLUS night school is the way to go financially. Consequently, snobbish universities are going to disdain them.
The real problem is that employers disdain them, too.
You know, they should make universities track default rates on student loans....
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S. @ 9:45AM | 2004-04-10| permalink
The large majority of my night-school education was financed with private loans. Working during the day, at a non-professional job, barely pays the rent, much less tuition. However, with good credit (for a 19-20 yr old, at least), and a willingness to accept a (slightly) crappy interest rate, loans are easily obtainable.
I also must disagree with your assertion that employers disdain night-school students. All of the employers I have interviewed with have seemed impressed with my former schedule, and the manager at the job I accepted has told me that my 'proven work ethic' helped to convince them to make me an offer.
Finally, I believe roughly 25% of student loans are defaulted on within 5 years.
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Trebor @ 11:17AM | 2004-04-10| permalink
Why would schools track student loans? They don't make them, and they aren't in a position to know what happens.
Rice's MBA program offers some night and weekend classes, but they also require their part-time students to cut into their work schedule a bit, too.
In fact, I seem to recall that part-time students need a letter of committement from employers, but I could be mistaken. ~ Trebor
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Yam @ 12:22PM | 2004-04-11| permalink
For what it's worth.... I had to provide a letter of commitment from my employer when I attended UT's nights-and-weekends engineering program. Not that it actually meant anything.... a couple of managers became (and still remain) very upset that I couldn't put in the usual 24/7 extra push on their projects when I had school commitments.
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